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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>contributor survey in advance of 2021 sprint 1 · t-compiler · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/index.html">t-compiler</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html">contributor survey in advance of 2021 sprint 1</a></h3>

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<a name="224492149"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224492149" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224492149">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I want to talk about a survey</p>



<a name="224493421"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224493421" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224493421">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>So the essential idea was to choose some fixed point in the compiler's history</p>



<a name="224493524"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224493524" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224493524">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then make a little script that would check out that version, build it from scratch (gathing timings), make some set of "representative" changes, building each one (gathering more timings)</p>



<a name="224493539"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224493539" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224493539">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then send the results back to us</p>



<a name="224493628"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224493628" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224493628">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>What's a "representative change"? Well, one candidate would be the commit history going forward, or the bors merge points</p>



<a name="224493678"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224493678" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224493678">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not personally so sure that's truly <em>representative</em> of the kind of code people try to inject when they're experimenting locally</p>



<a name="224493761"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224493761" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224493761">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>but the commit history at least its easy to "generate" (since its already there for the plucking)</p>



<a name="224493766"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224493766" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224493766">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>this also depends what part of the compiler you're working on, rustdoc doesn't have as much problems with incremental</p>



<a name="224493805"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224493805" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224493805">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I imagine modifying rustc_resolve and other things <em>after</em> rustc_middle isn't so bad</p>



<a name="224494011"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494011" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494011">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right. Maybe the simplest thing would be to just make semi-trivial modifications (e.g. injecting a <code>debug!</code>) into some subset of the rustc_crates</p>



<a name="224494049"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494049" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494049">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>hmm, maybe not <code>debug!</code></p>



<a name="224494056"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494056" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494056">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:10)</a>:</h4>
<p><code>info!</code></p>



<a name="224494069"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494069" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494069">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:10)</a>:</h4>
<p><code>println!</code> might be better</p>



<a name="224494094"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494094" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494094">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>well I don't want to mess up test suite etc</p>



<a name="224494174"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494174" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494174">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>do you want to measure different configurations? like <code>debug = true</code>, <code>debug-logging = true</code>?</p>



<a name="224494228"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494228" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494228">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>(specifically the compile time, obviously runtime will be slower with logging)</p>



<a name="224494230"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494230" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494230">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>One potential problem with just injecting one <code>info!</code> per crate is that we might "get lucky" in terms of codegen-unit partitioning. Maybe.</p>



<a name="224494320"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494320" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494320">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>I debate about this. I personally do use <code>debug = true</code>, but I get impression it might not be representative of what other contributors do.</p>



<a name="224494428"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494428" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494428">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe that's the <em>first</em> thing: a micro-survey, where we just say to every contributor: email us your typical config.toml (or up to three config.tomls if you toggle between some)</p>



<a name="224494500"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494500" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494500">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>I really like that, it's easy to put together the questions and quick to answer</p>



<a name="224494631"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494631" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494631">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Does anyone see a reason <em>not</em> to do this? Or something else I should ask for in tandem?</p>



<a name="224494731"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494731" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494731">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would worry about saturating our survey ability</p>



<a name="224494782"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494782" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494782">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we can expect responses for the first decently, but after that I expect people to start ignoring</p>



<a name="224494802"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494802" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494802">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>and config.toml -- to me -- does not sound like high order bit</p>



<a name="224494844"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494844" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494844">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I also don't know what <em>would</em> be</p>



<a name="224494848"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494848" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494848">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>we could include it as part of the larger survey</p>



<a name="224494921"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494921" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494921">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think for <code>debug</code> especially we should plan for about half of people to have it enabled</p>



<a name="224494948"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494948" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494948">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>and measure that even if we measure no other changes</p>



<a name="224494979"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224494979" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Laurențiu <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224494979">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>But what is the point of it? Seeing how fast compiler builds are outside of CI and maybe your machine?</p>



<a name="224495009"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495009" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495009">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:16)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116122">@simulacrum</span> do you think the benchmark script approach makes sense?</p>



<a name="224495020"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495020" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495020">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>what I'm trying to get at is that if our aim is to expand the set of contributors, by enabling people who currently cannot contribute well, then they <em>won't know</em></p>



<a name="224495043"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495043" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495043">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>or <em>can't answer</em> these questions</p>



<a name="224495048"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495048" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495048">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:16)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="203546">Laurențiu Nicola</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224494979">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>But what is the point of it? Seeing how fast compiler builds are outside of CI and maybe your machine?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>seeing how fast it is to bootstrap the compiler</p>



<a name="224495146"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495146" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495146">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:17)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116122">simulacrum</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224495020">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>what I'm trying to get at is that if our aim is to expand the set of contributors, by enabling people who currently cannot contribute well, then they <em>won't know</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>ahhh this is a good point - we could say <em>if</em> you've made a config.toml before, please post it</p>



<a name="224495178"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495178" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495178">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>I also don't really know what a survey gives us in terms of data</p>



<a name="224495201"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495201" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495201">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>like, cool, I guess, if we can know how bad things are</p>



<a name="224495216"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495216" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495216">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the research question is too broad</p>



<a name="224495225"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495225" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495225">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>but things are bad <em>for me</em> on 3950x hardware realistically</p>



<a name="224495240"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495240" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495240">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>not "so bad"</p>



<a name="224495305"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495305" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495305">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>but bad enough that even I get distracted</p>



<a name="224495323"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495323" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495323">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>right, so I think there are thresholds</p>



<a name="224495326"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495326" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495326">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>so do we really need to know how bad things can get?</p>



<a name="224495328"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495328" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495328">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>between unusably bad</p>



<a name="224495347"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495347" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495347">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>vs irritatingly bad</p>



<a name="224495378"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495378" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495378">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>and its subjective, the line between unusable and irritating</p>



<a name="224495394"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495394" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Laurențiu <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495394">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:18)</a>:</h4>
<div class="codehilite"><pre><span></span><code>seeing how fast it is to bootstrap the compiler
</code></pre></div>
<p>So say it takes users on average 50 minutes for an initial build and 3 for an incremental one. How is that actionable?</p>
<p>I don't want to seem negative, but I'm really curious about what follows</p>



<a name="224495407"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495407" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495407">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>but the times themselves are objective</p>



<a name="224495509"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495509" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495509">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>So I personally would like to know 1. how long are the different parts taking, and how long do typical workflows take, and 2. do you deem this merely irritating, or unusable.</p>



<a name="224495531"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495531" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495531">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>(for each  workflow, that is)</p>



<a name="224495539"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495539" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495539">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I wonder if there is a platform question here - do new contributors use Windows or macOS at higher rates than regular contributors, and does that have an impact?</p>



<a name="224495547"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495547" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495547">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>the original idea was to measure <em>incremental</em> times</p>



<a name="224495563"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495563" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495563">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>and to see if small changes had an outsized impact</p>



<a name="224495632"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495632" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495632">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that would give an idea where incremental can improve</p>



<a name="224495644"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495644" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495644">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:20)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224495509">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>So I personally would like to know 1. how long are the different parts taking, and how long do typical workflows take, and 2. do you deem this merely irritating, or unusable.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I guess - what I would like to get out of this - is <em>why</em> you want to know these things</p>



<a name="224495713"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495713" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495713">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., if you want incremental cases that cause slow recompiles, give me an hour or two and I could find some just by trying to tackle a bug or two?</p>



<a name="224495736"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495736" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495736">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well, there are some workflows that may be fast for me and you and that are slow for others: its good to know about that.</p>



<a name="224495743"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495743" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495743">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>(why do we need to survey for that data)</p>



<a name="224495779"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495779" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495779">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:21)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224495736">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Well, there are some workflows that may be fast for me and you and that are slow for others: its good to know about that.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>what would cause that disparity?</p>



<a name="224495798"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495798" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495798">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>but there are also cases where we would just swallow how long it takes, but a new contributor wont</p>



<a name="224495860"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495860" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495860">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:21)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224495798">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>but there are also cases where we would just swallow how long it takes, but a new contributor wont</p>
</blockquote>
<p>fyi this is definitely true already, if I had to compile rustc on my laptop I just wouldn't contribute</p>



<a name="224495861"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495861" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495861">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:21)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116122">simulacrum</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224495779">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>what would cause that disparity?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>memory hierarchy issues, mostly I expect</p>



<a name="224495957"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495957" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495957">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess what I'm trying to get at is that <em>if</em> it was true that I didn't really have a problem, then surveying to figure out what caused problems for people with weaker/slower/etc hardware, makes sense. But since <em>I</em> do have a problem, then I imagine people with different computers would just have <em>more</em> problems, but likely <em>also</em> have the ones I have</p>



<a name="224495968"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224495968" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224495968">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I think the budget for surveying is small</p>



<a name="224496009"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496009" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496009">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>so trying to get to a point where good/excellent hardware means you don't have any problems, and <em>then</em> surveying makes more sense to me</p>



<a name="224496031"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496031" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496031">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay so I will state up front: The original goal for teh survey was when I figured the first sprint would be about incremental bootstrap performance</p>



<a name="224496066"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496066" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496066">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>And we thought we could benefit from better understanding the pain points</p>



<a name="224496093"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496093" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496093">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>Since the budget for surveying is small, I do agree wih that</p>



<a name="224496152"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496152" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496152">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it could be prudent to table the idea</p>



<a name="224496153"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496153" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496153">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right, I'm saying that I do not think a survey gives us a significantly better understanding than we can derive on our own with some testing/investment</p>



<a name="224496252"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496252" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496252">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's the part I'm not sure about</p>



<a name="224496275"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496275" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Laurențiu <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496275">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>(How long does a no-op <code>./x.py check</code> take these days?)</p>



<a name="224496281"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496281" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496281">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>We don't know if our own measurements are representative</p>



<a name="224496298"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496298" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496298">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>without comparing them against reality</p>



<a name="224496317"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496317" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496317">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>in terms of our contributors</p>



<a name="224496321"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496321" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496321">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:24)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116122">simulacrum</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224495957">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I guess what I'm trying to get at is that <em>if</em> it was true that I didn't really have a problem, then surveying to figure out what caused problems for people with weaker/slower/etc hardware, makes sense. But since <em>I</em> do have a problem, then I imagine people with different computers would just have <em>more</em> problems, but likely <em>also</em> have the ones I have</p>
</blockquote>
<p>do you agree with this principle?</p>



<a name="224496374"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496374" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496374">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that we do have problems, and that our contributors have more problems</p>



<a name="224496397"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496397" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496397">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am not sure that focusing just on the problems that we see</p>



<a name="224496414"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496414" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496414">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>will maximize benefit for our contributors</p>



<a name="224496447"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496447" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496447">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>the biggest bang for our buck may come from something that you and I do not observe</p>



<a name="224496466"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496466" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496466">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>personally I do agree that solving the problems we can see first is a good idea because we can test it easily</p>



<a name="224496492"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496492" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496492">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>like it's very easy to see "this uses 2 GB less of memory" and it helps everyone</p>



<a name="224496534"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496534" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496534">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree with that</p>



<a name="224496569"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496569" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496569">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>Optimizing for testing it easily makes a lot of sense</p>



<a name="224496586"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496586" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496586">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>and it <em>is</em> likely to help everyone to some degree</p>



<a name="224496620"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496620" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496620">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree that it may not maximize the benefits on weak hardware</p>



<a name="224496655"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496655" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496655">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>But I also think - ultimately - it is unlikely to <em>hurt</em></p>



<a name="224496658"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496658" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496658">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>Look, here's another example: I don't know how many people cannot do incremental in practice due to disk space usage issues</p>



<a name="224496708"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496708" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496708">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>so if I spend a lot of time making incremental performance awesome</p>



<a name="224496718"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496718" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496718">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think surveying for "how much disk space" would be quite reasonable</p>



<a name="224496723"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496723" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496723">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>without addressing the disk space usage problem</p>



<a name="224496726"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496726" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Laurențiu <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496726">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>It might also be worth testing on all major platforms. If most compiler contributors are on MacOS or Linux, they might not be aware of slowness on Windows. But I think we're covered on that front?</p>



<a name="224496789"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496789" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496789">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:27)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="203546">Laurențiu Nicola</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224496726">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>It might also be worth it to test on all major platforms. If most compiler contributors are on MacOS or Linux, they might not be aware of slowness on Windows</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah I think <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116107">@davidtwco</span> pointed out something similar.</p>



<a name="224496793"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496793" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496793">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>what I am saying is that <em>if</em> we survey, I sort of want us to have some idea of brackets, and it's hard to do that right now</p>



<a name="224496859"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496859" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496859">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>Another approach here</p>



<a name="224496878"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496878" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496878">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>the survey doesn't have to be big cost</p>



<a name="224496888"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496888" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496888">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>we could build it into x.py</p>



<a name="224496890"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496890" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496890">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g. for disk space, I would rather ask "can you dedicate 50GB to rustc", not "how much disk space do you have?"</p>



<a name="224496927"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496927" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496927">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>where it just samples the info, and asks the contributor if they're comfortable sending it back to us</p>



<a name="224496932"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496932" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496932">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:28)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224496888">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>we could build it into x.py</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I can personally say I'd probably fill it out once or twice but not more</p>



<a name="224496944"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496944" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Laurențiu <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496944">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>Opt-in build telemetry? :)</p>



<a name="224496954"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496954" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496954">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>like, even if it's just a click</p>



<a name="224496983"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224496983" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224496983">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I worry that timing measurements are "only" going to be a proxy for the hardware people have access to.</p>



<a name="224497075"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224497075" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224497075">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay?</p>



<a name="224497109"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224497109" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224497109">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>as in, we're better off asking what hardware they have directly?</p>



<a name="224497188"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224497188" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224497188">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>(which is, to be honest, part of what I was imagining could be built into x.py)</p>



<a name="224497216"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224497216" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224497216">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>not without asking what they are using it for?</p>



<a name="224497237"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224497237" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224497237">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>(of course we again run into potential privacy issues.)</p>



<a name="224497348"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224497348" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224497348">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:31)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="281739">oliver</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224497216">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>not without asking what they are using it for?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Sorry, what? Asking the contributor what they are building rustc for, you mean?</p>



<a name="224497390"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224497390" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224497390">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:31)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="203546">Laurențiu Nicola</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224496275">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>(How long does a no-op <code>./x.py check</code> take these days?)</p>
</blockquote>
<div class="codehilite"><pre><span></span><code>&gt; time xpy check
Updating only changed submodules
Submodules updated in 0.01 seconds
    Finished dev [unoptimized + debuginfo] target(s) in 0.09s
Checking stage0 std artifacts (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu -&gt; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
    Finished release [optimized + debuginfo] target(s) in 0.09s
Checking stage0 compiler artifacts (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu -&gt; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
    Finished release [optimized + debuginfo] target(s) in 0.13s
Checking stage0 rustdoc artifacts (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu -&gt; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
    Finished release [optimized + debuginfo] target(s) in 0.09s
Checking stage0 cranelift artifacts (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu -&gt; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
    Finished release [optimized + debuginfo] target(s) in 0.03s
Checking stage0 clippy artifacts (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu -&gt; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
    Finished release [optimized + debuginfo] target(s) in 0.09s
Checking stage0 bootstrap artifacts (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu -&gt; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
    Finished release [optimized + debuginfo] target(s) in 0.09s
Build completed successfully in 0:00:01

real    0m1.335s
user    0m1.201s
sys 0m0.168s
</code></pre></div>



<a name="224497481"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224497481" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224497481">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:31)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224497348">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="281739">oliver</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224497216">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>not without asking what they are using it for?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Sorry, what? Asking the contributor what they are building rustc for, you mean?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>in what ways they are they building yes</p>



<a name="224497917"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224497917" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224497917">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>still confused, sorry</p>



<a name="224498010"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224498010" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224498010">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:34)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="281739">@oliver</span> can you spell out what you were objecting to? I've said so many objectionable things, I cannot keep them all straight.</p>



<a name="224498019"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224498019" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224498019">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>As in rustdoc vs stdlib vs rustc?</p>



<a name="224498178"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224498178" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224498178">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's a sampling problem, on one hand there are millions of combinations of hardware<br>
and on the other hand probably many thousands of  ways of building rust</p>



<a name="224498179"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224498179" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Esteban Küber <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224498179">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also, I find that cargo check is not as useful to me. I usually need to get to the point of running a specific test with debug log printing to figure things out.</p>



<a name="224498263"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224498263" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224498263">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:35)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="281739">oliver</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224498178">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>it's a sampling problem, on one hand there are millions of combinations of hardware<br>
and on the other hand probably many thousands of  ways of building rust</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I don't think we need to know every possible way to build rust to improve the common cases</p>



<a name="224498326"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224498326" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224498326">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I don't think gathering all that data should be a goal</p>



<a name="224498357"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224498357" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224498357">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>but if you ask for a random sample there is going to be a lot of noise</p>



<a name="224498460"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224498460" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224498460">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>and it's not clear you wouldn't be better off setting up a controlled experiment</p>



<a name="224498553"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224498553" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224498553">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that's the takeaway, yes, we should improve cases we know about first before asking for more data in a survey</p>



<a name="224498663"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224498663" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224498663">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>Do we have any wording in our contributor documentation that tries to set expectations about the hardware and time that's currently necessary to build rustc? It's not a solution, but it'd be better if people knew going in that it might be slow or use a lot of resources, rather than finding that out after they've went and read about a bug to solve or w/e.</p>



<a name="224498694"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224498694" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224498694">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, let me find it</p>



<a name="224498707"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224498707" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224498707">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:38)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://rustc-dev-guide.rust-lang.org/getting-started.html#system-requirements">https://rustc-dev-guide.rust-lang.org/getting-started.html#system-requirements</a></p>



<a name="224498727"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224498727" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> davidtwco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224498727">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ah, great, I should have just went and checked <span aria-label="smile" class="emoji emoji-1f642" role="img" title="smile">:smile:</span></p>



<a name="224499058"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224499058" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224499058">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would be interested to find out whether or not the current 'default' build<br>
as it's bundled is actually the optimal performance setting</p>



<a name="224499117"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224499117" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224499117">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:41)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="281739">oliver</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224499058">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I would be interested to find out whether or not the current 'default' build<br>
as it's bundled is actually the optimal performance setting</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I don't think 'optimal performance setting' should be a goal tbh, <code>debug = true</code> can slow things down but also makes the build much more useful</p>



<a name="224499144"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224499144" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224499144">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I really think we should focus on making the common case better, since it will help <em>every</em> kind of build</p>



<a name="224499273"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224499273" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224499273">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>the common case isn't just pull from master and compile?</p>



<a name="224499312"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224499312" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224499312">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>by "common case" I mean "things that are true no matter your configuration"</p>



<a name="224499318"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224499318" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224499318">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g. rustc_middle will be slow no matter what</p>



<a name="224499638"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224499638" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224499638">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree with you, just that personally this discussion makes me doubt<br>
my configuration and I'm not sure what to do about it <span aria-label="joy" class="emoji emoji-1f602" role="img" title="joy">:joy:</span></p>



<a name="224499778"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224499778" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224499778">(Jan 29 2021 at 16:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>though fwiw I still doubt sending you my specs will influence anything</p>



<a name="224504277"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224504277" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> bjorn3 <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224504277">(Jan 29 2021 at 17:15)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224496658">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Look, here's another example: I don't know how many people cannot do incremental in practice due to disk space usage issues</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I can't use incremental due to the disk space usage requirement. I may be a bit of an extreme example, but I need to regularly clean my target dirs even when not building rustc. Right now I for example have 1.9GB of free space. When cleaning all my target dirs I have about 5GB of free space.</p>



<a name="224506756"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224506756" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Laurențiu <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224506756">(Jan 29 2021 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>I did that for a couple of years, then finally got a 1 TB SSD :-) (and more or less stopped coding anyway :(). Might be harder on a Mac.</p>



<a name="224522928"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224522928" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224522928">(Jan 29 2021 at 19:40)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224496658">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Look, here's another example: I don't know how many people cannot do incremental in practice due to disk space usage issues</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I have enough space for it, but I can definitely imagine that for many people 30 GB of build artifacts is too much <span aria-label="laughing" class="emoji emoji-1f606" role="img" title="laughing">:laughing:</span></p>



<a name="224523023"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224523023" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224523023">(Jan 29 2021 at 19:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>(Which is how large one of my <code>build/</code> dirs is.)</p>



<a name="224523577"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224523577" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224523577">(Jan 29 2021 at 19:45)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="119031">Esteban Küber</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201/near/224498179">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Also, I find that cargo check is not as useful to me. I usually need to get to the point of running a specific test with debug log printing to figure things out.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I rarely use <code>x.py check</code>, but recently I've been refactoring a bit in rustdoc and it blew me away how much faster it is than <code>x.py build</code> <span aria-label="laughing" class="emoji emoji-1f606" role="img" title="laughing">:laughing:</span></p>



<a name="224536319"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor%20survey%20in%20advance%20of%202021%20sprint%201/near/224536319" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nadrieril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/contributor.20survey.20in.20advance.20of.202021.20sprint.201.html#224536319">(Jan 29 2021 at 21:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>Building rustc was definitely one of the main reasons I recently bought a bigger SSD ^^</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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